In celebration of Bloom Consulting’s 20th anniversary, this podcast series brings together leading voices to discuss the key elements of Nation Branding and Place Branding. Hosted by Clare Dewhurst, Director of City Nation Place, the series provides an engaging platform to explore the 14 critical steps Bloom Consulting has identified for building a successful brand strategy. Each episode focuses on one actionable step, offering a roadmap to enhance your branding initiatives and unlock your place’s potential.
In this episode, Clare welcomes José Torres, Chief Executive of Bloom Consulting, alongside a special guest, David Downs, Chief Executive of New Zealand Story. Together, they dive into one of the most pivotal elements of Place Branding, sharing their expertise and perspectives on how Nations and Regions can strengthen their Brand Identity and messaging.
Clare: Hi, David.
David: Kia ora, as we say here in New Zealand—hello!
Clare: Great, it’s good to have you with us. New Zealand Story is described as the ambitious organisation that presents and markets New Zealand to the world. For this episode, we’ll be talking about the seventh step: Be on-brand, and stay on-brand. Let me turn to you first, José. Why is this so important?
José: Well, whenever we want to establish or manage the perception of a nation or city, this cannot be done alone. It’s not about just one entity or institution trying to manage a perception or trying to establish a Central Idea, like we discussed in the previous episode, with step six. This kind of perception can only be established if different stakeholders, society in general, are aligned with a Central Idea. Or, put another way, there needs to be consistency among the stakeholders and players who are actually building or narrating the story of the nation or city.
This is one of the big differences between Nation or Place Branding and consumer branding. With Nation or Place Branding, you are delivering a series of behaviours, actions, activities, and policies through these stakeholders in the nation, city, or region. Then, of course, you market and communicate this in a variety of ways.
So, to summarise, Clare, it’s really about consistency: consistency of touchpoints, consistency of narrative, and consistency among stakeholders who deliver that promise, deliver that brand idea.
Clare: That makes sense. I know it’s a particular challenge. We hear many people ask for examples of how places manage to deliver on this. So, David, is this topic a challenge for you? What have you learned about managing consistency in the New Zealand brand?
David: Yes, I think it’s a great topic. When José was talking about this, and I saw the methodology, it really rang true. The reality is, I could spend my entire organisation’s budget for the year, and I might afford one billboard in Shanghai for a week. So, no matter how well-crafted our thought, our story, or our Place Brand is, if we can’t actually get it out there to the people we’re trying to reach, then there’s no point. We can’t do that by ourselves—we’re too small.
So, for us, the obvious thing is to sit across the system. If I talk about the New Zealand Story, I describe it as a joint venture between all the government agencies that interact internationally, because we’re a Country Brand. There are about six or seven key government agencies involved—the trade sector, tourism, education, etc. All of them have come together and said, “We need a consistent narrative and a consistent brand across all of us.”
So, my team’s job is to create that. And that’s actually the easy part. I don’t want to undermine it, but the harder part is getting all those agencies, with hundreds of employees, to stay consistent and coherent. The temptation is always there to create their own version of things.
But in a country like ours, with a relatively small population, we need consistency. When the world interacts with any New Zealand agency, whether government or private sector, they need to get the same message. Consistency in communication is key—and we keep hammering it home to the point where it’s almost boring for us. That’s when you know you’ve done it right—when you’re sick of your own voice saying the same thing over and over again!
Clare: One of the biggest challenges is the relationship with politicians. I know there’s been a recent change of government, but certainly during the pandemic, when I’d say New Zealand’s brand went from strength to strength, much of that was due to the consistency of messaging coming from Jacinda Ardern. So, how is that relationship between New Zealand’s brand story and your politicians and government?
David: Yeah, that’s interesting. Before I answer your question, I just want to point out that a brand story only works if it’s authentic and real. If we came out and said, “New Zealand is the biggest and the best in the world,” it would feel inauthentic. All of those other agencies and people who are talking about New Zealand would see it as fake, and it wouldn’t come across well.
The reason the New Zealand brand story grew during COVID was that it was authentic. What we say is that New Zealand is a country where connection to the land, the place we’re from, and care for the people in it are what drive our ingenuity. When you saw our Prime Minister during the pandemic, and many countries faced the same challenge, the authentic compassion we showed came through. It felt real, it was on brand, and it resonated with people.
To your question about our political leaders, we put effort into making sure they’re aware of the work we’re doing and, ideally, that they subscribe to it. The best-case scenario is that they start using our materials and commentary. We’ve been successful in that over the last few years.
Clare: One way you get your private sector engaged with the brand is through the Fernmark licensing, isn’t it? Do you think that plays an important part in ensuring consistency in storytelling?
David: Yes, I do. It’s interesting because, while you guys are the experts in brand building, I’m more of an amateur in this field, but I’m learning from professionals like you. One piece of wisdom we’ve learned is that a brand is not just a logo. We certainly believe that, but at the same time, we do have a logo—the Fernmark.
What we’ve discovered, through research, is that the Fernmark is globally recognised, much more so than our flag, for example. It’s an asset. We’ve trademarked it in 30 or 40 countries and we have a licensing programme for it. We licence it out to exporters, government agencies, and others. It’s become a shorthand for the bigger brand story.
The Fernmark is not the brand itself, but it absolutely reinforces the greater story we’re trying to tell: New Zealand as a values-based country. It works well. For private sector businesses, especially exporters, it’s highly valuable. We’re seeing increasing demand for companies to use it because it means something.
José: Based on what you’re saying, would you agree that the licensing program is not only an opportunity but also a means to train and ensure that those participating in it stay aligned with the brand? For instance, the visual identity becomes a very practical tool to help everyone stay on-brand.
Joining the licensing program is particularly impactful for consumer-facing brands. These companies, by participating, effectively become brand ambassadors. While they certainly benefit from the country’s reputation, they also play a crucial role in delivering the brand promise we’ve been discussing.
Would you say that this approach helps foster a sense of unison and creates a common narrative? Does it provide alignment, particularly within the private sector, to ensure that the messaging and values remain consistent across all touchpoints?
David: That’s exactly how we’ve designed the program. If anyone listening wants to learn more about it, feel free to get in touch. Again, aligning with the topic of this podcast, consistency is everything.
When companies apply for the Fernmark licence to become a licensee, they go through a few key checks. First, we ensure that they are genuinely a New Zealand organisation. Whether their product is designed, grown, or manufactured here, it must meet that standard. There’s also a “good character” test, where we evaluate if the company aligns with the kind of values and image we want to associate with New Zealand as a brand and as a country.
Once approved, we emphasise the importance of consistent and coherent messaging. We encourage them to integrate the Fernmark into their packaging, websites, and other materials. We also invest time in explaining the brand values and their significance. In many parts of the world—particularly in Asia, which is a major market for New Zealand—the Fernmark serves as a shorthand for what the country represents. It carries a strong association with quality, trust, and authenticity.
What’s interesting about this initiative is that it’s backed by the government. While this isn’t always the case in Place Branding, we are a government agency representing the New Zealand government. In many regions, especially those that value the rule of law and government credibility, this adds significant weight.
To clarify, we don’t directly endorse the company itself. Instead, we’re endorsing the fact that their products are grown, built, or crafted in New Zealand. However, this implied government backing provides credibility, which is particularly beneficial for smaller exporters. It allows them to stand out in international markets, project confidence, and appear larger and more established than they might actually be.
Clare: Can I ask you about how you ensure consistency across all your stakeholders? You mentioned the structure with government departments, which makes sense. Other than the Fernmark, you’re providing them with a narrative—this is how we talk about ourselves. How do you deliver that practically?
David: Yeah, it’s interesting. So when I talk about what we do as an agency, I say we do three things. First, we protect and grow the brand of the country. Second, we tell stories and market the country to help people understand who we are. And third, we teach others how to do that.
It’s that third aspect where we work with companies to help them understand the brand narrative. Our country does have a brand narrative, and it’s important for New Zealand businesses to understand that. According to the most recent report, our brand’s value is $280 billion. That’s an incredible asset for businesses in New Zealand to leverage.
We teach companies how to associate themselves with this brand by using the language and core values that underpin it. We’ve developed a values-based marketing approach, which is about being authentic and grounded in what makes us unique. Alongside this, we run practical programs—training exporters to use New Zealand’s brand effectively while also enhancing their own storytelling.
This includes understanding their markets, tailoring messaging to those markets, and weaving in our core messages, which are customized for various international destinations. It’s not rocket science, but these simple principles are often overlooked.
To make it easier, we provide a toolkit of assets—images, graphics, videos—that businesses can use. This lowers their cost of entry and ensures consistency. For smaller exporters, this is particularly valuable. It means their materials feel like they belong to the same “family” as the overarching New Zealand brand, even if they’re not identical.
Clare: Speaking of family, your cities have also begun to establish their own identities. Auckland, for example, won our Place Brand Strategy of the Year Award a few years ago. This year, Christchurch will be presenting their new brand platform at the Global Conference. So how does that work? As the cities start to establish and want to create their own identity on a global stage, how does that fit in with the New Zealand story?
David: That’s a great question, especially for a podcast focused on consistency. Cities are key stakeholders, and I spend a lot of time on these relationships.
In New Zealand, we probably have three cities that are really pushing their international profiles. It’s important that their narratives align with what we’re saying at the national level. It doesn’t make sense for a city to develop a brand that’s entirely separate when there’s already recognition of New Zealand as a whole.
Thankfully, because of our size, we can manage this. I know the City Branding teams personally, and our teams collaborate often—for example, on film shoots. This allows us to maintain alignment.
We are also very lucky in New Zealand in that we have a very strong indigenous culture, the Māori culture, which unlocks a huge amount of value that I think we can show the world about what it is to be from a bicultural country. And each of those City Brands has their own really interesting story in that bicultural space as well. For instance, Christchurch’s latest campaign leans into creativity, innovation, and its Māori heritage. This complements our national message beautifully.
The challenge is maintaining consistency while respecting individuality. Cities have specific goals, like recruiting talent or attracting investment, but their efforts should still feel connected to the New Zealand brand.
One of the ways we achieve this is by reminding everyone to stick to the plan. Marketing teams often want to create something entirely new, but the real leverage comes from consistently telling the story we already have—even if it feels repetitive to us.
José: We talk here a lot about from a messaging point of view, right, and here there’s two interesting things that you said, I think, at the beginning. One is repeating yourself and going to all these institutions and making sure, we talked about the Fernmark program, but you also talk about the government ministries. It sounds like a lot of effort goes into guiding stakeholders on what to do—and what not to do—to stay aligned.
But also, I’m curious to know if you as an institution also play a role, for instance, in talking to policymakers to make sure that the policies they’re currently developing for the country are aligned with that brand or in other words are on brand. Does the New Zealand story also work on this? Beyond just marketing but also from the branding perspective?
David: I would like to say we do, but I don’t think we do it to the extent that we could. We definitely have good relationships, and we try to ensure the brand is not just something we talk about—it’s something we live and bring to life.
Personally, I believe that part of our responsibility is not just to demonstrate or communicate the brand but to help shape it and make it real. Take New Zealand as an example. Globally, we are highly regarded for being a clean, green economy—environmentally friendly, sustainable, and so on. It’s a wonderful reputation to have, but at the risk of throwing ourselves under the bus, the reality is that we’re not as good as everyone thinks we are. Frankly, we could do better, particularly in areas like sustainability and water rights.
In my role, I’ve given myself the mandate—though no one explicitly assigned it to me—to insert myself into conversations about these issues. My aim is to remind policymakers and politicians that we need to do a better job of living up to our own reputation. We can’t rely on the world assuming we’re perfect and engage in “greenhushing,” where we avoid addressing our shortcomings in the hope no one notices. Instead, we must actively improve.
This approach has been quite effective. Within New Zealand’s government system, I feel welcomed into these discussions. I believe it’s partly because I can present objective insights. For example, I don’t just offer personal opinions—I rely on research that highlights how we are perceived globally. The research tells us what we’re seen as good at and where we need improvement. It gives us clear direction: we need to improve in certain areas, amplify our strengths, and adjust our messaging accordingly. I call this research our “right to operate.”
Being able to bring this research to policymakers, hold it up, and say, “This is what the world sees in us, and here’s where we need to step up,” is a critical part of what we do. It allows us to shape the brand through action rather than just talk.
That said, I don’t think we’re doing it as well as we could. There’s always room to learn from others. I eagerly read the work both of your organisations produce because I believe we can learn a great deal from other agencies and organisations.
Ultimately, I think it’s part of our responsibility. We’re not just the country’s marketing department, creating posters while everyone else does the real work. We must be deeply involved in aligning policies, actions, and communications to bring the brand to life.
José: And inspire them, right? And inspire them and get them.
David: Yeah, yeah. And it’s, our country does stand for something. We want the values to be aspirational. We want them to be anchored in reality, but they are a bit aspirational. That’s like any brand. And therefore, we’ve got to live up to that aspiration.
José: Very good.
Clare: So, David, you’ve told us everything you’re doing, which I mean, it’s all very impressive. And I know you say you’re not doing it well, but I think José and I would both agree that it’s being done very well in New Zealand. But do you have any questions for José around how he sees other places succeeding in delivering better consistency?
David: I mean, it’s so interesting being in roles like ours, isn’t it? Particularly for those of us in Country Branding or Place Branding roles around the world. We’re all hungry to learn from each other because, let’s be honest, sometimes it feels like we’re just feeling our way in the dark.
José, going back to the purpose of this podcast—consistency—do you see examples of organisations or people globally who have really nailed it? Are there places where everyone seems to be swimming in the same direction, with messaging that’s completely coherent, stakeholder relationships that run smoothly, and everyone clearly understanding their role?
Or are we all on the same journey, trying to get our stakeholders aligned and rowing in unison?
José: As long as we’re humans, this will never happen. Maybe if the world were completely ruled by AI, that would be a different story. But as long as we’re humans—no, these challenges will always exist.
I get asked this question a lot: Is it just us? And the answer is always the same: no. There’s no perfect case. Everything tends to be fine until the moment you need to escalate the project to other institutions. That’s where the importance of staying on brand and being consistent becomes clear. Every time you escalate or move beyond the core group of Nation Brand builders—those who are naturally aligned with the brand—that’s when the real challenges of managing the brand begin.
There’s no perfect case study for this. You might think smaller countries would have an easier time managing their Nation Brand projects, but I would disagree. That’s not a hard-and-fast rule. Sometimes they do, but I’ve also worked with very large nations that you’d assume would face significant challenges, yet they’ve managed quite effectively. Conversely, some small nations can be surprisingly difficult to coordinate. It really depends on time, process.
A key issue is that managing a Nation Brand is often confused with traditional marketing—particularly in its early stages. Many think it’s just about tourism promotion or a single campaign, like a billboard. The other challenge is that Nation Branding itself is still a relatively new practice. When you speak to stakeholders, many are hearing about it for the first time.
Consider infrastructure projects like building a bridge or an urban planning initiative. While those projects come with their own challenges, everyone understands what a master plan is or what a bridge entails. It’s tangible. But when it comes to managing a Nation Brand, you’re dealing with perceptions and something that’s deeply embedded in people’s minds. Stakeholders often think it’s something entirely different from what it actually is.
That’s why it’s so important to continually educate, explain, and share knowledge—through platforms like this podcast, for example. Hearing from others, exchanging experiences, and sharing information are crucial to addressing these challenges. The more we talk about it, the more we can mitigate these issues over time.
David: That’s good to hear. It’s good to hear. I guess the other thing I’d add to that—and maybe this is my defence mechanism—is that I tell people building a brand, especially for a nation, is a 30 to 50-year project. We’re only about 10 years in, if that. So, we’ll start to see the real results of our work in another 10 years, and then we’ll reap the benefits another 10 years after that.
This long timeline is a challenge, especially for a government agency where funding and expectations are tied to shorter-term outcomes. But I truly believe brands take time to build. Consistency, coherent messaging, and repetition over time are absolutely critical.
That’s why today’s discussion resonates so much. It’s about making sure we’re all telling the same consistent coherent story over a long period of time.
Clare: Yeah. What is your one thing that people should do to ensure that they have that consistency, that they are on brand?
David: Well, my experience is that the one thing is to learn who your key stakeholders are and then if you’re in a position like I am, I see my job is just to go around all of those stakeholders like once every month or two months and just keep reminding them of what we’re doing and why. And let my team actually do the job of developing and telling the story and my job is just to make sure the stakeholders are all on board with us the whole time. So that’s my one thing, consistency.
Clare: And José, what would be your one thing?
José: I would say I agree with David. One of the key things is providing tools to help people understand how to be on-brand and stay on-brand, right? It’s about moving from a conceptual understanding to offering practical tools that guide this process effectively.
One approach nations and cities can take is creating what we call on and off brand filters. These filters serve as a guide, and they can take many forms—a software tool, an app, or even a simple Word document. The idea is to include a series of questions designed for non-experts, people who might not fully understand what a Nation Brand entails. These questions could ask, for example, “Are you acting in alignment with these principles?” or “Does this message reflect the brand’s core values?”
When we talk about consistency, it’s not just about visual elements. It’s also about maintaining alignment in storytelling, structure, and communication. The on and off brand filter provides a structured way to ensure that messaging, actions, and decisions remain aligned with the brand.
Having such a tool is practical and highly beneficial. It empowers stakeholders—especially those responsible for shaping the nation’s perception—to remain consistent and coherent in their efforts to build and sustain the brand.
Clare: Perfect. Thank you. Thanks both of you so much for your advice today.
José: Thank you.
Clare: And thanks David for so honestly sharing your approach in New Zealand. I think there’s a lot to learn for everyone else. Thank you so much for your time, David.
David: I really appreciate it. What a great chat. Thank you so much, both of you. I can’t wait to actually meet you both in person and, you know, we can sit over a glass of wine and talk about this stuff for hours.
Clare: I look forward to it, David. I’m a great believer in meeting in person. And thank you for listening. I hope you’ll be tuning in for the next episode of Bloom Conversations, where one thing at a time, we’ll be exploring Bloom’s 14 steps to successful Nation and Place Branding.
In the next episode, we’ll be looking at auditing and activating brand touch points. In the meantime, on the Bloom Consulting website page where you found this podcast, you’ll see our recommendations for further reading to help you in your approach to building and managing to help you in your approach to building and managing the reputation of your Nation or Place Brand.
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Published on 11.12.2024.
